Flak Radio Interviews Tay Zonday

Tay Zonday's song "Chocolate Rain" has been viewed on YouTube 5.8 million times at last count. Due to a quirk of geographic proximity, Flak Radio was able to book him for Episode 39 of the program to chat about the sudden success of his enigmatic hit. Here's a (slightly abridged) transcript of the interview.

Taylor Carik: Welcome back to Flak Radio. I'm Taylor Carik, here with Jim Norton and our special guest Tay Zonday. And, Tay... that audio coming into this segment was your introduction on the Jimmy Kimmel show from last week.

Tay Zonday: That was.

TC: How was that performance?

TZ: I was so nervous, and just listening to it again, I realize I was so flat.

James Norton: Really!

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TZ: But you know, that's the nature of television. I think what I've learned is that making good television has nothing to do with making good music. They are entirely different skill sets. I think it's possible to come in as a musician and be like: "Okay, I know this song the way I do it, and I'm very comfortable doing it the way that I do it," and a television producer comes to you and they're like: "Oh, why don't you do all these things that make it look good on television?"

And so, then I become totally nervous because I'm out of the zone that I'm comfortable in. But I guess it kind of worked.

TC: There are a few of our listeners who may have not seen "Chocolate Rain" yet, so let's do a quick introduction of the song and your music. You live here in Minneapolis, right?

TZ: I do.

TC: What has "Chocolate Rain" sort of evolved into... the song you recorded and put up on YouTube... what's that all about?

TZ: The interesting thing is that the version that's up there is actually experimental. I never intended it as a final mix. But, you know, it's taken off as the version that is up there... you know, sometimes you throw something up there and you don't know if it's going to be like two people will watch it in the next year... or whether it's going to take off.

JN: Why do you think it took off?

TZ: I think it has a catchy hook. I think people get a lot of different things out of it. Some people experience it on a very deep intellectual level and the political messages that are in there... but for some people, it's just a catchy hook. There's the mom who's like: "My two-year-old can't stop singing 'Chocolate Rain!'" I think there are people who just experience it on a very visceral level, and I think both are great. However people come to it.

JN: Was there an explicit political or other artistic subtext to it...? There was no clear meaning that was hitting me over the head, and I kind of liked that. Did you have something specific in mind?

TZ: I think maybe I did, but at the same time I think you're right — I did not intend for the song to be dogmatic. I think that's perhaps part of the song's appeal, that it's somewhat cryptic. I still have no idea what "Stairway to Heaven" is saying...

JN: It's still a pretty solid song.

TZ: Maybe if you ask Robert Plant, can he give you a sophisticated answer? Maybe, but it's still a great song.

TC: You mentioned that the Jimmy Kimmel show had you make some modifications for performing it live?

TZ: You know, I was comfortable just standing up and singing the song with a mic. Whereas they were very interested in recreating the image of my playing it on the keyboard, so I ended up mimicking the keyboard track, and my hands were shaking I was so nervous. The thing is... I rehearsed it doing it acoustically, but I'm so glad I didn't attempt it acoustically — that would have been a disaster because I was so nervous. I'm so glad I used a backing track.

The thing about Jimmy Kimmel Live is you get one take. I kept asking the producer: "Oh, can I get more than one take?" And they're like: "No, that's the way it works on live shows."

I think that's wonderful in many ways, but...

JN: From your position, it's less than wonderful.

TZ: Yeah, exactly. I have one take to do this.

JN: Do you consider yourself a performer — do you go out and do your stuff in public, or has the Internet been your theater?

TZ: I'd say the latter is probably truer. I haven't done a whole lot of live performance.

TC: But you're going to be doing a live performance, I saw... Performing before Girl-Talk at First Avenue.

TZ: That is true.

JN: One of the things I learned via the magic of Wikipedia is that you didn't listen to a lot of music growing up, is that right?

TZ: I did not, that is absolutely correct.

JN: So how did you find yourself in the position of being a musician? If you were in a position where your parents didn't let you listen to popular music...

TZ: That is true.

JN: So what's the story there?

TZ: I don't know... I mean, how are the two related would be my question? I think everybody just sings. I think it's just normal to sing in the shower, or to sing in the car on a long road trip. There's something programmed into our flesh to produce rhythm and to produce music so I don't know that's really related to the process of listening through osmosis.

I think perhaps even the opposite is true. I think that situation — sitting at the keyboard with my headphones where no one else could hear me became a way to access music.

JN: Which also might be why it sounds original. I think that's one of the things that made this catch on — it doesn't sound like anything else out there. What was the first song you ever wrote? What kind of got you rolling as a songwriter?

TZ: You know, gosh... I can't remember the first as a remarkable event. People always ask: "Where do you songs come from? What is your inspiration? Did you have this 'ah-hah!' moment?"

Part of that, I don't want to get too academic, but I think it relates to how people think about meritocracy in the economy and the way ideas are created... you have aptitude, you have this "ah-hah!" moment, and you invent something, and you have your individual prosperity, and blah blah blah blah.

There's this cultural tendancy to want to trace everything back to a point of origin. And I just don't know where that point is as a songwriter. I think the song comes out as a song because I'm not able to speak it, because I'm not able to articulate it.

JN: I think you put your finger on something interesting. You know this new movie about Jane Austen and the old one about Shakespeare in love... films want to say: "And then she met this guy, and he became that character! And then this moment happened at a restaurant, and that became this moment in the book!" But it's more organic than that, generally.

TC: An interesting thing, too, with "Chocolate Rain" is that there's a lot going on with it. First there's the originality of the song. But the other thing is how so many people have remixed it and copied it and just done it all over the place. It's interesting that there was this really original item and everybody else copied it right away, and that's how it got so many different page views and so much involvement. And it's really a testament to how crazy the Internet can be!

Have you listened to many of those remixes?

TZ: Not as many as I would like to... it's just been so busy, so crazy...

JN: What do you think of John Mayer covering the song?

TC: Kimmel gave you a real hard time about that John Mayer cover.

TZ: I'm flattered that anyone would be interested in interpreting my music, in interpreting the stuff that I do... so I take it in stride, and I take it very humbly.

TC: Have you been getting a lot of offers for recording, or performing, or appearing on shows?

TZ: I actually have been. I'd say the thing that's most consuming my time right now as opposed to making music has just been managing my correspondence. It's been a daunting task.

JN: Do you have an album coming out?

TZ: I actually don't have an answer for that yet. I'd love to release an album, but I do not have any concrete plans at the moment.

JN: One other thing: You're a graduate student, is that right?

TZ: I am a graduate student.

JN: What do you study?

TZ: I am a third-year PhD student in the program in American Studies at the University of Minnesota. The simple answer is I study the relationship between performance and social movements, and social change.

JN: Taylor, any other questions before we head on out on the 8-bit version of "Chocolate Rain"?

TC: I think that's it. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

TZ: Well, thank you so much for having me.

JN: We really appreciate it. Here's the 8-bit version of "Chocolate Rain."